Brother C is unapologetically bringing meat to the table...
While helping and teaching some of our newest members get acquainted with the 40kverse, it dawned on me why my Dark Angels are not as competitive as they could be. This will not be a whine session about 5th edition vs. 4th, but honestly, 5th edition is definitely taking the game to another level. Dark Angels are full of great temptations, taking ravenwing bikers or deathwing terminators as troop choices seems like a great idea.. at first. But lets look at the breakdown. 215 points gets you a 5 man term squad, base weapons. 220 points gets you a 6 man ravenwing squad, no upgrades. (course you also have to figure in the cost of the correct HQs for the rule to be in effect).
Terms are great for that anvil unit you want to defend ground or push a front into your opponent's lines, but in order to do this, you need a LR or deep strike. LR are a nice but a significant point sink, and termies on foot is hit or miss. Not being able to assault out of a deepstrike means your opponent can just sit back and wait to blow them away. deepstriking and then running into cover is great, but it by no means guarantees their survival. Plus, if we are talking troops, you will probably have 3+ groups, are you running around with 3 LRs?
Ravenwing have scout move, which is a real nice bonus, outflanking that tank line in the back can be devastating, but at 250 (give or take for upgrades) for a 6 man squad, hardly seems worth it, no invul saves, concentrated fire will drop them fast.
Having said all that as an intro. I realized what I was doing wrong with my army and how I was building my list. There wasn't enough MEAT. (aka tact marines as troops choices) I was getting so caught up with expensive troop units with few bodies to absorb damage. I completely overlooked the need for massive amounts of tact meat to take some of the hits for these elite squads.
5th edition armies are bringing lots of firepower to the table, and its just no longer economical to concentrate that fire on a few soldiers, when you could be spreading it out through a larger force.
Have other players come to this same realization? How are you using your meat in your list to absorb fire and wounds, allowing your specialized units to become more effective? How are you dealing with opponents realizing they need to bring more bodies to the fight? are you taking more template weapons? are you reserving your forces and then deepstriking/ outflanking?
I agree, space marines (and chaos space marines) that don't have a 5th edition codex shouldn't be considered 'elite' right now. IG troopers are basically the same as a space marine, but they get more heavy weapons and more models for less points.
ReplyDeleteI am finding the best way to make up for our horrendous cost deficiency is to make large or more numerous squads of our cheapest units.
We have to use the tools we have, and yes we can still be semi-competitive, but we can never expect to beat the 5th edition codexes or the spam armies.
The single largest deciding factor in 40k right now is model cost. If you are cost efficient you win, if you aren't, you lose. Bottom line.
Just a clarification, model cost means model point cost. not actual cost to purchase the models from GW.
ReplyDeleteI agree with you Moros, and that is exactly what this post is about. I feel like I'm a CPA when I'm trying to build my competitive lists. Bottom line is, you are going to take losses on the field by the literal handful, best to make sure those are not all terminators (in the case of DA - but applies to other factions) or other like expensive units. Operation meat shield needs to be into full effect.
Not to mention this, from a tactic point of view, the best way to deal with units that have a good armor save or even an invuln save is to pelt them with masses of small arms fire. Eventually you will fail your saves.
ReplyDeleteThat is the best way to stop terms, and space marines in general.
And what is the best way for marines to counter that? By adding more wounds for you to whittle down. The amount of damage it takes to take down marines can be multiplied greatly by just adding more troops. Its the best way to counteract the inherent weakness of marines.