Hey All! Moros here!I apologize for the lack of updating as of late, I've been crazy busy getting ready for the 2011 Cabin Fever Tournament and shoveling snow!
Well my first tournament was an experience that's for sure! It was really great to hang out with some fellow gamers for the weekend and throw down the dice. I personally want to thank Rich for running the event and to our own Todd Roy for whippin' up my favorite part of the weekend, the food! Thanks for all the hard work and for being willing to serve instead of play. It is much appreciated!
There was some really good competition out. There were showings from Dark Eldar, Eldar, Sisters of Battle, a few Tyranids, an ork, and a lot of Chaos Space Marines. I got to play my first game against Imperial Guard ever and it was against a good buddy Ross Famous. But believe it or not, there wasn't a single Blood Angel OR Space Wolf player at the entire tournament! I was amazed, I figured that was all I would see.
Lancashire's favored son Brother Cornelius represented well! He amazingly went 4 and 1 and managed to pull out 3rd place overall and best space marine general with his Dark Angels army! Way to go! For your first tournament that is amazing!I however didn't fare so well. Not to be surprised my Thousand Sons themed list was an abysmal failure! I knew from designing the force that I just wouldn't have enough troops to be able to play the objectives of the matches. The real quandary is that if I take enough troops to play objectives - first of all they still can't play objectives cause they aren't really a threat, and second I would lose all the support elements of my army because of the massively overpriced nature of my chosen theme. So, not matter how the cookie crumbled, I was pretty much screwed. So I decided to, in true Chaos fashion, error on the side of killing :)
I stuck with the 3 defilers and the land raider with terminators in support of my 2 thousand son squads with Ahriman. Pretty much the least competitive list ever. I honestly expected to get tabled ever game. But I was surprised how much I did hold my own in pretty much all but one of the games (Ross is a jerk! :P) When it came to the actual fighting and playing portion of the matches I did very well, I for all purposes tabled 3 players (2 of them had a handful of models left and one was tabled 3x over). Which is really surprising to me. I thought sure I would be cowering in a corner the entire weekend under a merciless barrage of guns and assaults and just blown off the board by turn 3. So in that regards I did better than I thought I would which is nice!
But, as I sadly realized... this tournament had nothing to do with actually fighting the enemy. It was pretty much all about objectives objectives objectives and mission shenanigans netting you undeserved points. For instance, getting 500 points for NOT bringing a heavy support choice to a mission changed my draw to a loss. So, I take a risk and bring heavy support choices and am punished for it if I lose a single one whereas my opponent automatically gets 500 points for taking NO risk at all by not fielding any. Honestly, with the newer armies you don't need heavy support options at all, your troops can handle the roll pretty well in most cases. It is a flaw in the mission imo and should be looked at. But hey, that's how it was and that is fine!I did play against two Nurgle Themed armies that spammed Plague Marines all over the place! It was a blast to play against the other chaos codexs and I did very well vs them gaining my only wins of the tournament. I went 2 and 3 for the weekend taking losses to Imperial Guard (Ross!), Steel Thunder Mike's Orks, and the loss to the Space Marines that didn't take a heavy support.
I might be shelving my Chaos Space Marines until they get an update tho, they are just completely inefficient vs any of the newer armies. Especially with my theme. Probably will only be seeing them in a non-competitive nature from now on.
Overall I had a blast playing in the tournament and glad I went. I may not be going to a tournament in the future that is based on point totals tho. I was really put off by the system and felt like it rewards those in "the know" and punishes new players or people that want to do something different. A straight win/loss tournament is something I would like to try next to see how it varies.
-- Here are some Pics from the weekend --
Fighting against the Death Guard in game 5! I still can't get the stink off!
Ross Famous' Imperial Guard command squad holding a fortified position!
moros my one suggestion would be to take a regular csm squad with mark of tzeencth instead of a lr and termies...
ReplyDeletecause they are iffy if not deployed right and when they do damage players can remove them just as easy...
and 400pts could be almost 2 more troop squads
Yeah I see what you're saying. However, dropping the land raider and termies and would only be enough points for 1 CSM squad with a mark. Taking CSMs with anything less than 10 man is pointless as you can't take the second special or heavy weapon.
ReplyDeleteSo I could get 1 troop choice in a rhino. Which would severely weaken the support of my army, deny me the ability to pressure and contest a point and leave my defilers hanging out in the open with no cover. AND lose the ability to stop deathstars with my 5x combi-plasmas.
It would add another troop choice but in doing so neuter what I already have. Its the problem with the CSM codex and the reason why it is not a competitive codex. The overpriced units throughout make it impossible to field sufficient forces to compete in 5th.
the main reason for the other csm squad would be to push forward and pop tanks... 2 melta, combi melta... and ur battle cannons can take most death star units... but the biggest thing is lack of melta guns... cause with any game bodies are needed and most tourney armies can damage a smaller force faster
ReplyDeleteI don't have problems with vehicles in this list at all. I have plenty of suppression fire, lascannons, mulit-melta, bolts of change, DCCWs, etc.
ReplyDeleteThe problem is not enough points to field enough troops while maintaining enough of a fire base / support section. It just can't be done when facing the lower point armies with a themed list.
Defiler x2
ReplyDelete3 units of seven 1ksons in rhinos
4 termies in LR
Ahriman
small unit of minor daemons.
this works. You have three troop choices in rhinos.
you have a distraction (daemons)
You have distance firepower (defilers)
you have Anti Tank (defilers and LR)
you have CC choppyness (termies)
I see alot of potential in this list and it addresses the # of troops you have fairly well. Its also more s4/ap3 shots then you had before.
Brother, I understand your assertions... but in my experience, you not only have fixated on the perception you need three defilers and all that jazz, you've done married it, chained yourself to it and allow it to color every single idea for improving the overall capability of your army.
Had you the above, you might have won one more game as you'd have had a troop in a can to sit on an objective.
I strongly suggest at least TRYING the above a few times. I think you will do better than you think...
Of course, its' My Opinion- your mileage may- actiually I know it will vary. :) :)
As for not participating in GT-style events, there are not that many events that don't use soft scores anymore. 'Ard boyz being one of the few that does... and even they use missions. :)
I totally had a blast at Cabin Fever. As Rich announced at the beginning of the event, scores will be supported by Sportsmanship, Appearance, and Theme, as well as battle points.
ReplyDeleteWhile I agree with you that some of the missions are at times questionable with how they are scored, it is what it is. You know the mission before you roll the dice to set up your army.
Tournament Lists need to be flexible enough to cover all bases, not just all comers as far as opponents, but also missions. That being said, heavily Themed armies will win soft scores for theme and appearance (I actually voted you on those categories), but at times will leave you too one-dimensional to compete in this particular format. This current Chaos Marines Codex lacks a lot of the luster the 4th edition codex had and to compete in GT-style tourneys, you need to be flexible to adjust that.
Sportsmanship however, imo, should ALWAYS be a key factor and when I run Berks Spring Assault this year, Sportsmanship counts more so than ever in our tournament.
As the person commenting prior to me suggested, if you want a hard-nosed, plain win-loss style tournament, that's what 'ard boyz is all about. It's also one the reasons I didn't play in it last year, as I prefer the Gt Style tournaments that reward players not just for good play, but sportsmanship, appearance on painting and building models and conversions. It's the total hobby that I enjoy.
As for the missions, I never play an 1500-2000 point army with less than 4 troops units, and prefer to run with 5, as I did this tournament.
Regardless, it was a blast playing you and your army looked great. Your dreadnought cracked me up with the Monty Python "Black Knight" effects all game long.
@ Anon
ReplyDeleteYeah, I have fixed on 3x Defilers... I challenge you to try to play a game vs a decent army with less than 3 and let me know how they do.
I've done tests after tests after tests... its 3 or bust. 1 defiler, dies way too easily and will last 1 turn at max. It also brings so little to the table solo there is no threat created from it at all. 2 Defilers, not much more survivable and still not bringing the firepower needed to be a significant threat.
3 is a threat, and takes awhile to stop. It is something that must be dealt with. I challenge you to play test with them and you'll see that 2 just doesn't cut it in all seriousness.
I'd be breaking my theme taking the daemons :( The whole point of this was to make a semi-decent army using the theme :P
@ Steel Mike -
Yeah, I understand what needs to be done to have a flexible list. I also understand I can't and maintain my fluffy theme :P So, like I said, I went on the side of killing instead of objectives. I totally understood from the beginning that would be my undooing. The only thing I didn't like about the missions was the undeserved points. I mean, that guy that tied me woulda still won if I had TABLED him because he got a free 500 points for doing nothing.
That is honestly the only types of things I didn't like about the missions. Everything else was a blast!
Our game was one of my favorites of the tourney! loved fighting the orks!
I think I am leaning towards the list that Anon. has posted. (btw guys, please don't use anon, we want to get to know the 40k community) 3x squads of troops seems to be the way to go. there were a few missions where you only got victory points by controlling 3 objectives with 3 different squads... or the table quarters.. if you only have 2 troops.. that's half the points you are already sacrificing at the start.
ReplyDeletealso, as far as 'themed' fluffy lists.... the nice thing about fluff is that you can make up whatever story you want to explain your build out. maybe ahriman doesn't like the lesser demons, but.. maybe they are spies from the other chaos gods to watch ahriman and they just happen to attack the opponent when they appear. I don't know. be creative. haha.
thanks for posting anon and Mike.
the anon was archer cause his computer wasnt letting him log in...
ReplyDeleteand ur fluff should change after major events.... just to use krogg as an examble when he was captured mike did not use him
Yeah but the entire point of Ahriman is his hatred of mutation and daemons.... so.... :P
ReplyDelete