Brother C here after a long hiatus. I've been studying like a madman, trying to finish out my architectural licensure. One more test to go, if I pass this last one.
Anyways, I've been inspired by Darkwynn's win at the Feast of Blades tournament with his Black Templars (his list can be found here) and it got my mind brainstorming if DA could run something similar…. Maybe .. even better?
First a list, than a discussion.
HQ:
Belial (Lightning Claws) + banner with +1 attack [notice no apothecary really needed in this list]
Ezekiel
Troops:
DW terminator squad 3x claws, 2x TH/SS [this squad rides in the Land Raider Crusader alongside Belial]
DW terminator squad 5x TH/SS + Cyclone Missile Launcher
DW terminator squad 5x TH/SS + Cyclone Missile Launcher
5 man tactical squad, no upgrades, riding in LR with Ezekiel
10 man tactical squad with missle launcher upgrade [combat squadded]
Fast Attack:
Speeder: Multi-melta, Typhoon
Speeder: Multi-melta, Typhoon
Speeder: Multi-melta, Typhoon
Heavy Support:
Land Raider
Land Raider Crusader
Total points = 2000
Discussion:
Ok, so.. that's what we are looking at here. Now, this has some specific disadvantages to what the Black Templars were bringing. Mainly vows. Furious Charge termies out of a land raider is just not something DA can muster we are also losing the 8 man squad of termies, DA can only take 5 man. Also, we are bringing less speeders than that BT list and as such, losing some of the anti-infantry firepower with the speeders having multi-meltas instead of heavy bolters like in Darkwynn's list.
But what is DA bringing instead ?
+1 attack banner: Well the +1 attack banner is there simply so that my 5 man deathwing squad now has the same attacks as an 8 man termie squad. If you were playing an opponent where you think you really needed MORE extra punch, you could always throw Ezekiel in that raider also for more init 5, power weapons attacks.
Scoring terminators: do I really need to emphasize this ? DA has scoring terminators.. that is a HUGE advantage over the BT list. Again, this doesn't exactly make up for BTs being able to have 2x cyclones in their squads, but it’s a nice benefit for choosing them.
Ezekiel: physic defense? Yeah, I have the best, kthx. Unlimited range hood, leadership 10. Sitting in a land raider, have fun. Also, Ezekiel in this list can also serve as a babysitter for the 10 man tactical squad if you are playing killpoints and if the mission/opponent warranted him for that role. Don't forget, he makes his unit fearless. 10man fearless tactical marines squad sitting in cover with a leadership 10, unlimited range hood? Could be useful in certain circumstances. However, he'll mainly be riding around in the godhammer pattern landraider, mopping up loose MSU squads when needed.
Storm Shields: yes I realize, BTs get storm shields also, but.. not on their cycloneators. DA does. Advantage DA.
Honestly that's about it. In most matches, the taticals on foot start in reserve, hoping they don't come in till late game. If they come in earlier, just run them for cover and fire than one missile to annoy stuff. (took out a ghost arc in my last match, lulz)
From my play tests of this list so far, it has performed very very well. The double land raiders really make for nice hiding places for speeders, and having 2x extra scoring terminators squads make for some nice bubble wrap if my opponent has deep striking meltas and nice flank threats if my opponent is going to be weak there, (yes, deathwing assault is still very nice for this list in certain circumstances). I lament my mini-deathstar, its just simply not as good as the BT version or something a Blood Angels or GK list can muster, but it'll wreck most anything else, and the option to send belial out on his own are there as well, he is expendable in this army like woah, use him that way.
Anways, more hobby articles on the way, and maybe even a battle report or two. Taking the month off from testing in December, expect more content soon.
-Brother C.
If you use the 3++ shield you do loose the unlimited range Psychic hood.
ReplyDelete@ Anon
ReplyDeleteHow's that?
You don't lose the hood and aside from that, it isn't too bad of a list. I find single speeders to be very worthwhile as opponents either spend the first turn trying to bring them down or they wait until its too late and the speeders start popping their armor and boosting onto objectives.
ReplyDeleteMy bad, re-read the FAQ. Always thought you got the benefits and also every thing that is worse from the SM book.
ReplyDeleteSo psy-hood still rocks... and Ld10 on Ezekiel :)
What do you have against BT, Brother Cornelius :-) Man, you and Moros both hate my army for some reason...
ReplyDeleteIts a pretty good list, but one of the advantages that BT have is Tank Hunters with more than one Cyclone Mossile Launcher. Honestly, I prefer having 1 Cyclinator to 2 but with TH/SS for much more survivability, but us being able to take Tank Hunters really put us over the top. In addition, our Land Speeders can Deep Strike. Finally, our Lightning Claws have both Furious Charge AND Preferred Enemy, because of the vow we can take. Finally, one of the advantages you have is that you are Stubborn, whereas we are subjected to Righteous Zeal (where if even one of our guys is killed, we either run forward or away).
All in all, a good list, and one that I would suggest running (except lose Ezekiel and put in a Chappy with some LC termies to get that Preferred Enemy at least on the charge), but I don't think that you can make the suggestion that your list is similar to the BT list, just because of hte differences in the special rules. Although, better? Maybe.
Call me stingy on points, but I am just not a fan of running more than 1 HQ in anything that is 2000 points or less. I used to be though. Maybe I oughta start running a new list...
Sig,
ReplyDeleteI would agree with you about dropping Ezekiel in lieu of a inter. chaplain to roll with Belial and the termies in the Crusader.
however, with DA, taking 2 HQs somtimes makes sense, just because we have to take Belial if running terminators. He is one of the most cost effective HQs in the game.
I don't think being able to deepstrike you're speeders is that much of an advantage unless you aren't running typhoons on them and are simply looking to block traffic and get off one Multi-melta hit. why not start them on the board and milk the range of the typhoon and thre threat range of the 12" movement multi-melta.
I am working on refining this list and hopefully will get some games in over the holiday week to try out a chappy with belial's squad and dropping the 10 man tactical squad in lieu of a 4th termie squad to ride on the godhammer pattern raider.
thanks for the feedback man.