Thursday, April 7, 2011

Daemons vs Grey Knights! Thoughts + Battle Report


Hey all Moros here!

I apologize for the lack of posting, hopefully I can get it back on track here! Even though I haven't been posting much, I have however been playing tons of 40k. I have to admit, as a Daemons player I was a bit put off at the prospect of my beloved codex being "phased out" in a way by a very powerful Grey Knight codex. However, after a few games and lots of brushing up on the details of GWs new fanboy dex I have to say its not nearly as bad as I first thought. Infact, the new book might just give daemons the upper hand in most cases.

HERESY you say? You're right, I must be crazy saying that the "Daemonhunters" are virtually hard-countered by Daemons. But, as you will see, I think I have a point.

Firstly, Lets get on with the battle report and then build from there. I've played about 20 games now vs GKs and this is the most recent. Now it must be said, that for my opponent this was his first game with the new GKs. Experience is definitely in my corner here.

Now for the lists, Even before the new GK codex dropped I've been partial to a Khorne themed list. To my great surprise, it is more valid than ever. I usually run variants of the same core list utilizing all Khorne units. A greater daemon, 2x heralds on chariots, a average of 4, 8 strong Bloodletter units, 3x Daemon Princes with the works, and as many MSU Bloodcrushers as I can fit in a list. (I really like running 3 strong Crusher units with 1 champion and 1 musician for wound allocation shenanigans)

For this particular battle I ran with my new varient list that can both deal with all comers and gives me the leg up vs Grey Knights

HQ -

BloodThirster - 275
+Blessing of the Blood GOd
+Unholy Might

Herald of Khorne - 130
+Chariot
+Blessing of the Blood God
+Unholy Might
+Icon

SkullTaker - 175
+Bloodcrusher

Elites -

7x Bloodcrushers - 280

Troops -

8x Bloodletters - 128

8x Bloodletters - 128

8x Bloodletters - 128

7x Bloodletters - 112

Heavy -

Deamon Prince - 210
+Flight
+Armor
+Unholy Might
+Mark of Khorne
+Blessing of the Blood God

Deamon Prince - 210
+Flight
+Armor
+Unholy Might
+Mark of Khorne
+Blessing of the Blood God

Deamon Prince - 210
+Flight
+Armor
+Unholy Might
+Mark of Khorne
+Blessing of the Blood God


My opponent was running a first pass test list of

Brother-Captain

5x Terminators

2x 10 man GKSSs with incinerators

2x DreadKnights

2x Stormravens

and a Landraider

Now, when playing the GK my goal was to get as many Blessing of the Blood God (BLOBG) units as possible into combat as quickly as possible. This isn't my dream list to face off against GKs, my dream list would include less bloodletters and lots and lots of fleshhounds for even more speed. However, I don't have the models as of now so this is what I'm rolling with.

The thinking behind this is pretty much bringing a glaring flaw with the Emprah's finest to the forefront, and shoving it down their throats. All GKs have force weapons... therefore, any unit with BLOBG gets a 2++ save vs them in combat. With their new nemesis weapons not even ignoring invulns OR eternal warrior, I am in a very very good position seeing as combat is where Khorne shines. If I can just weather the first turn of shooting, I can tie up his elite units for an entire game and even best them in combat easily. Or he could camp out in his vehicles and severely hamper his main shooting which comes from his infantry at 24".

He descended to the planet and prepared for the onslaught of daemons in our Seize Ground (5 Objectives) Dawn of War battle. I drew first turn, which I selected even though I hardly ever want to go first, but again. In this battle, I wanted to get the first moves off to dictate how the flow of the battle went. The GKs deployed in a gun wall attempting to bring as much ranged firepower to bear as possible. We both knew this match would come down to if he could shoot enough daemons before the skull-taking began. I deployed about 14" away with as much as I could, drawing my primary wave. I chose all the big daemons and crushers for the first wave attempting to get as much meat on the table to absorb shots as possible.

I used the massive Crusher squad with Skulltaker attached to draw as much fire as I could so that the bigger, faster deamons had a decent chance of making it to the field. The ploy worked as a crusher squad that large draws a lot of attention from the enemy. I had some decent cover to work with and utilized it well with no mishaps. (remember, the average deepstrike is 7", that can help you when placing things down) After some run moves to get in a bit closer the GKs unload into the Bloodcrushers with everything, killing off 3 of them and wounding another. Not too shabby.

Moving onto my next I had all but 1 of my remaining squads come in from reserve this turn, which was nice, but not really needed at this point. Bloodthirster and winged Prince put their speed to work and get into a turn 2 combat with his left GKSS unit killing all of them but the justicar at init 5. Their brave champion was then felled by fearless wounds after he tried to flee! As expected, the 2++ save held strong and my units received no damage. I did realize that doing this would put my 2 badass daemons in range of his DreadKnights assault in the next turn and they would receive heavy shooting, however, with the rest of the legion backing them up, if they did fall, I had enough to break that flank.


Moving into the bottom of turn 2 he unloads into the crushers and the Bloodthirster/Prince... killing off 2 more crushers and putting a wound on the Thirster. Then the moment we were all waiting for, how would the DreadKnights hold up in combat vs the Daemons? Oddly enough, not as well as one would think.


DreadKnights engage the monsters and unleash their Dark Excommunication psychic powers to nullify the Daemonic gifts of both my Thirster and Prince. Bye bye 2++ and extra strength! I was sweating at this point, however, with no psyk-out nades I was still going to be hitting first. Thirster strikes and takes off 2 wounds from the Knight and the battle between the prince and his foe ends up with the dreadknight wounding the prince twice. He ended up pulling in a bloodletter unit with my Thirster as well and he elected to attack them and go for fearless saves instead of attacking the Thirster. I still think he should have cast Dark Excommunication on the Bloodletters and attacked them, they would have lost their power weapons which ended up doing another wound to the Knight.

In the end, we weren't too impressed with the DreadKnights. They pretty much did exactly what they were supposed to do and just broke even, that was WITH their power removing much of the effectivness of my units.

In the subsequent turns my herald and Skulltaker moved in and finished off the DreadKnights. Skulltaker is truly the bane of DKs, with one chop he insta-killed one of them with 4 wounds. My herald on chariot moved in to help out and destroy the final DreadKnight.

With the DreadKnights slain, the remaining GKSS and Terminators shot and charged the Bloodcrushers with Skulltaker and killed off the crushers. Problem was, Skulltaker took out the 5 terminators! He's an absolute monster! And my opponents dice were obviously hexed. He did end up killing the Thirster who had 1 wound left with the deluge of fire from the Land Raider but it was to no avail. The rest of my force was encroaching and my herald and prince finished off the other GKSS and Skulltaker claimed the Brother-Captains Skull for the Skull Throne!

It was an epic game and tho my opponent did make a few minor mistakes we chalked it up to learning the new codex. I do think however, this still shows the power of the BLOBG themed Khorne army vs GK. Once I got into combat there was little he could do. 2++ is just too big of a hurdle to get over, especially when a 4 wound monstrous creature is up in your face.

It ended on turn 4 with only his Stormravens remaining, I had 3 objectives under my control and it was only a matter of time before I took the flyers down.

The Grey Knights are sorely, and oddly, lacking on anti-daemon abilities. Warpquake isn't much of a problem if you have a decently fast unit in your force. Nemesis weapons are actually a negative when facing Khorne. Overall, It is my opinion that this new Grey Knight codex actually aren't full of "Daemonhunters" at all they were designed from the ground up to be "Marinehunters". Almost everything in their codex is a hard counter to the tricks and advantages of space marines, not Daemons.

Odd, very odd...

For those Daemon players out there that think your time is up, perhaps it is, unless... you decide to offer your worship to Khorne! He alone offers deliverance from Mat Ward! Your GK opponents better pray to their emperor you don't get into CC.

Blood for the Blood God!

9 comments:

  1. nice report. it is VERY silly that daemons are very effective against grey knights but what you gonna do? I will agree with you in the discussions we have had that Matt Ward simply forgot about blessing of the blood god.

    i can't wait to throw my termies are those dread knights!

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  2. I think the GRey Knights forgot the adage of " boys before toys". In the list above that is like 700 points for three vechiles. I would like to see a rematch with the grey knights taking 2 psyfilman dreads, a librarian and maybe a 4 psy cannon totting purgation squad. Because of their expensive cost . I think grey knights could get away without going mech. Factor in teleportation. Although nice report I think deamons are under represented and kudo's to you for playing with them.

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  3. Granted, I think the list could use some work. I won't argue that. It was his first list with the new codex. So, that aside... the fact is this... if a Khorne Daemon with BLOBG gets into CC with any of your squads, odds are in its favor for wiping the entire unit.

    Most units that take it are monsters in combat and with a 2++ they can't really be stopped. Most will need 3s to hit and 2s to wound with you getting no save. Torrenting is I guess an option, but when you're losing that many marines a turn you'll be hurting to actually torrent down one in combat.

    Shooting is your only option, and I firmly believe daemons can mitigate a 24" range shooty army with their fast units pretty well.

    Thanks for the comments btw. I am having a blast fighting against GK with daemons, its very fun.

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  4. I might try Slaanesh. I do enjoy tons of rending attacks at ridiculous initiative

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  5. The GK Libby is their hard counter to Daemons. Dark Exco, sanctuary and might of titan make any squad he joins a massive headache for any daemonic unit. Plus you can give him a staff so he has a 2++ in combat to stop him being sniped.

    The Strike Squad is also a pain against daemons; Wap quake gives them room, and they are very shooty. These guys spammed in razors is a very solid base for countering daemons.

    IMO GK are similar to the last codex in that they can be extremely effective against daemons, but at the cost of having an all comers list.

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  6. aren't those daemon princes 215 points each?

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  7. @ Pat, well yes they are! thanks for pointing that out!

    Drop a bloodletter and there you go, wouldn't have effected the game anyway, had 3 fully untouched letter squads

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  8. Confused how you insta-killed a DK. Do Daemons have a STR 12 weapon? Powerfists max at 10 as do thunder hammers.
    Also, shouldn't the Nemesis Fists of the DK insta-killed the Daemon-Prince? Or is there a rule that stops this. I don't own the Daemon Codex. I was just curious.

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    Replies
    1. adding on as well...did your friend use the gatling silencer at all on his DK's? were those effective?

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